The Internet has been hopping recently in the literary community over what seems to be a war of attrition between writers and the agents they query. It's a situation tailor-made for bad blood: writers, by nature of the strong feelings they have for their "babies" have a tendency to take every rejection, every no response personally; and agents, faced with overflowing inboxes and limited by Earth days with only four and twenty hours, cannot possibly give every query the personal feedback the querier craves.
The recent Twitter uproar over #queryfail and its backlash known as #agentfail was brought to a head last week on April Fool's with this this blog post from the Bookends Literary Agency. The comments overflowed (last count, over 300) with both constructive feedback and - more noticeably - angry vitriol from frustrated writers.
But writers aren't the only ones following this conversation. My agent, Ginger Clark of Curtis Brown asked if she could voice her opinion – an Agentfail rebuttal, so to speak – from the other side of the query.
Ginger, there are several points of contention that frustrated writers bring up again and again in regards to what they see as the failure of the literary agent, and one of the biggest seems to be agents blogging/Twittering about what they do in their free time when, theoretically, they "should" be responding to queries and requested materials. What is your response to this?
Firstly, Gretchen, thank you for letting me hijack your blog to discuss this. I had a lot of thoughts reading those comments. So thank you for letting me take up some of your blog to share them.
My most passionate response was: Agents are allowed to have personal lives. Everyone is allowed to have personal lives. Everyone is entitled to time to rest and relax.
And not everyone has to put their career first to be a good agent. Here’s what my priority list looks like for my life:
1. My husband Brian
2. Friends and pets (when our chinchillas were still alive)
3. Career
I’m sorry if that makes me sound unfocused. But I do want to spend time NOT working. I do want to have dinner with my husband, call and see my friends, and when our rodents were around, play with them and take them to the vet when they were sick. I want to take a vacation, and I also want to spend what little time I have free when I am away for business talking to the people I miss back home.
And agents who blog about what they do in their free time are not doing anything wrong.
Also, not every moment of my day at work is spent working entirely on serving my clients and getting new clients. I sometimes take a break to talk with a coworker, or read something online, or gossip with an editor friend. And that is OK. I need a few breaks during the day. Every agent needs a few. It should not be held against us. We are not androids.
While I read these comments, I thought of Don Draper on “Mad Men” telling a coworker of his (Pete Campbell, perennial douchebag) to go home and be with his family when his father dies. Don says, “There’s work, and then there is family.” Meaning, family is to be put ahead of work. There is NOTHING wrong with that.
(PS Don Draper TOTALLY does not take this advice himself, of course.)
This is the important point I hope everyone registers: agents, just like writers and editors, are real people with real lives, and how they choose to budget their time is an inalienable right.
I also feel as if many commenters on the Bookends blog post are not taking into account the way an agent has to divide their designated "work time." With commitments to clients and your agency, how much of an average work day can you afford to allot to queries?
I can afford to give maybe 5 to 10% of my work day to queries and potential clients. Often less. The rest of the day has to be spent helping and looking after my clients, or British rights to our children’s list. That’s how I make money, and, more importantly—that’s what my clients are paying me to do.
One comment on the blog that particularly caught my eye was this:
"Stop telling me how hard your job is. Life is hard. Being a writer/agent/doctor/soda salesman...Work sucks. deal with it."
It seems to me that agents, like anyone else who keeps a blog, should be able to complain about any damn thing they please. Do you think agents should draw a line with what they post on their personal blogs?
Firstly, yes—if you have a blog, you can complain as much or as little as you want. If your readers don’t like it, they can just not read it.
One of the reasons that I don’t have a blog is that I do not trust myself enough to keep it either strictly professional, or strictly personal (and my personal life is not interesting, nor is it for public consumption). There are some days when I just want to rant about someone who is driving me crazy, or screwed over one of my clients. If I had a blog, I know I would be tempted to do so. So I don’t, and instead I call a friend, or bitch about it at home to Brian—and I save myself the complications of offending someone in my industry.
I applaud agents who are able to keep their blogs professional and helpful. Nathan Bransford (and I am not just saying this because I work with him) has the ideal agent blog, in my opinion. He is brilliant; he is extremely well-informed; he is kind and funny; he spends a lot of his free time helping writers. There are plenty of other agents who blog, and do themselves a great service in doing so.
There are a few (very few, but a few) agents who really should not blog, for the sake of their own careers, though. They don’t come off well. That’s my own opinion, and so I’m not going to name names.
There also seems to be an overwhelming sense of anger in regards to "no response means no," a policy frequently used by agents in regards to queries. Common comments include "How hard is it to set up an email signature that says 'thanks but no thanks?'" or requesting a confirmation email that queries have been received. From the other side of the desk, what is your reaction?
I have some experience here, doing both. When I first started officially welcoming emailed queries (in late 2006) I would reply to all of them. When I rejected one, I would say, “Thank you, but this is not for me. Best, Ginger Clark” or something like that. I did that for about four months. Then I stopped—because I got sick of receiving rude responses. Email makes it so easy for someone to reply, “Well, screw you.” Which people did. Repeatedly.
So I stopped responding, and made it very clear on my Publishers Marketplace page what my policy was.
As for an automatic response—that’s something I have considered doing. Then I remember that every so often, one of my clients will email me a question with a subject line saying, “Quick query for you.” I would rather they not get an automated response, treating them like an aspiring author.
I suppose I could just hit reply on every email, and paste in a form response, but—please see my earlier experience! Some stranger saying “screw you” or “Wow, you’re an asshole”….I try not to take that personally, but some days it would just really get under my skin.
I know that 90% of the people I would be replying to would behave professionally, but it’s that 10% that keeps me from amending my policy.
I realize that many writers feel strongly about their side of things, and that the anger behind Agentfail is sometimes warranted. I welcome your comments but I also hope that you listen to what Ginger has to say with an open mind. This is one agent openly posting her response, her opinion and her feelings in regards to this topic, and that deserves a great deal of respect.
Thanks, Gretchen. Can I add one thing?
Of course!
A lot of the comments were helpful to me to read. And a lot of the commenters had positive things to say about agents. Those were heartening.
So there you have it. Writers, agents DO read your comments, your complaints, your blog posts, your Tweets and your online forum threads. And with an objective eye. Personally, I couldn't ask for anything more.
Monday, April 6, 2009
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57 snarks:
Ginger, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, I really appreciate it!
Gretchen, you are so lucky to have such an awesome agent!
Fascinating...thanks to both of you for sharing!
Very nice to hear Ginger's thoughts on this. Thanks for post this, Gretchen!
Great post.
I have no problem with agents and editors tweeting and/or blogging about their personal lives. I like to know they are "real" people too. :)
Thank you so much for putting this forum out there. It did kind of sadden me to see what some folks were spewing in their apparent rage.
To some extent, aren't we all on the same team?
As a writer, I make it my business to be informed about the state of the industry. As well, I want to know about the folks who could potentially be involved in my writing so I try to learn as much as I can about what agents, editors and publishers do. This information helps to soften some of my (natural) emotional responses.
Again, good job and thank you.
George
Great post! I didn't head over to look at the whole #agentfail post so I missed the rants about agents having a personal life. I think expecting agents to work on queries/partials/full 24-7 is ridiculous and unfair. Do we writers work on our manuscripts 24-7? Nope. Pretty hypocritical to expect someone to do what we don't.
Besides, I don't want an agent who doesn't know how to have fun. ;)
Nice one, Gretchen and Ginger.
Agentfail was definitely an exercise in vitriol. Thanks for this.
A great post that nevertheless makes me think, "No duh." How can there still be people out there who don't recognize the validity of what Ginger is saying? Of course her personal life and her extant clients have to come first.
And re: people responding with "screw you" to a form rejection...isn't it par for the course that the jerks of the world ruin things for the rest of us?
Also, mmmmmm, chinchillas. Sooooo soft.
Thanks, Gretchen and Ginger.
I would hope everyone puts their family first and I have no issues with Twittering. I do/did take offense to the way I was treated and blogged about it on agentfail, under my name. It is what is--or was what it was. I simply retold what happened. Plain and simple, and there were other valid complaints. I've only responded to a few query rejections--with a thank you for your time--but refrain because of the time management issues for the agent.
The blog received what it asked for. One assumes it will be done with some semblance of repectful behavior. I am only responsible for me and I'm not ashamed of participating in agentfail.
Ella
Ginger,
Amen!
-Lucienne
Thank you Gretchen and Ginger for the response. I quit reading the agentfail comments after a while because of the bitterness. If only we could all just act professionally, but I know it's hard not to take things personally when you put bits of your soul in your work. I've been in charge of a writing contest for a conference the last few months and have been completely slammed with entries, so my judges and I have a whole new appreciation for what agents go through on a regular basis.
I'm always (guess I'm a slow learner on this . . . or maybe I just have too much faith in humanity) surprised at the anger/hate in comments, which is why I moderate the comments on my blogs. I never comment anonymously. If I'm going to make a comment, you can trace it back to me. Still, I feel rude/hateful comments are unnecessary. BookEnds was providing a constructive service. Yeah, rejection bites, but it is a part of life.
Thannks for this post. I always love the extra perspective on things. Would I still prefer some sort of response versus no response? Yes. Would I also prefer world peace? Yeah! Neither event is going to happen any time soon, so I accept what I can't change and rely on one of the Three Sisters (Cabernet, Merlot, and Margarita) of the Order of Maintiaing Sanity to ease away the frustration at the end of the day. Thanks again.
First off, dh and I LOVE G4. So entertaining. :)
I only read a few of the comments, but I do understand the frustration being vented there. I think (and I'm playing devil's advocate here) that most of it stems from contradictions (ie submit this way and you will hear from me, you will hear from me in 'blank' amount of time, but it never happens) and the 10% that Ginger lists above. There are certain editors and agents who really shouldn't be blogging and twittering because if you follow them for any length of time (and calculate the time they spend doing both) you realize they do as little as possible. *g* There's a difference between venting (which everyone needs to do from time to time) and being in the wrong field of work. This sort of thing I believe is completely separate from agents' and editors' personal lives. I think it's pretty easy to tell the difference between the two types if you really pay attention to what they're saying.
Well said.
Thanks for giving your side today, Ginger! I didn't post anything on Agent Fail, but I did read quite a few of the comments. I noticed the overwhelming response from professional writers to anyone complaining about "no response means no" was not to query agents with that policy. So in the end, not only have rude writers, who respond with a "screw you" to rejections, ruined it for other writers, they've also ruined it for agents who won't receive queries from potentially successful writers opposed to the "no response" policy. That's a lose/lose for everyone.
The venom over the "no response" policies is ridiculous. It's not that people aren't getting answers - because they are getting an answer, as stated by the submission guidelines. It's that people aren't getting the answer they want to hear, and there's no chance of instant gratification by dashing off a rude response (that they risk being passed along to others).
It's much better to write-off the "empty" responses, or re-query if you really want to make sure something didn't get trapped as spam, and then send those who respond in the negative a simple "thanks anyway".
With all due respect, I think you may have missed what was at the heart of the emotions concerning the "no response means no" objections.
I don't really care if all I get is a form letter or a carefully worked, glowing rejection. I just want to know the email was received.
The auto response comments were about sending out an automated email that lets a person know that their query is sitting safely in your inbox. A form letter that states:
"Your submission was received and will be evaluated as soon as possible. Please do not respond to this email." or something like that.
I think writers have a very legitimate gripe about not even having an avenue to ensure that their query which they spent WEEKS handcrafting got there. That's all they want.
A lot of industries that face high volumes of incoming calls or mail have done this. I know that when having to call for tech support or something like that, it does make me feel better to have a voice saying "Your call is in our queue and will be answered in the order it was received". I don't know what the order is. I may be number 50000 of 500001 and they're still on number 14, but at least I know there's a line and I'm in it.
As for those who reply rudely to rejections? I'm not sure how adopting a "no response means no" policy is going to help you there. If anything, in time it will encourage writers to submit to you multiple times, over and over again, until they DO get something out of you, because for all they know, their emails are getting lost and you'd love their novel if you just could read the query!
I think eventually that policy will result in higher volumes of repeat submissions from writers, and thus will result in more clogged up inboxes, which is the problem that agents seem to be trying to overcome right now.
As for rude responses, you said: "I know that 90% of the people I would be replying to would behave professionally, but it’s that 10% that keeps me from amending my policy."
Did you ever consider that maybe *that* is the reason some writers feel so angry? It's very hard to see people who do have a certain amount of power over you decide that you ought to be deprived of something based on how *OTHER PEOPLE* are acting. Especially when we writers, especially the 90% who are being as professional as possible, do so much research and work trying to treat each agent as an individual.
It's not easy to feel that you're being punished for someone else's actions, especially when you yourself would very gladly follow the rules.
Being treated, or at least perceiving that you're being treated, as just one faceless, unimportant grain of sand on a beach is never fun and does tend to make one angry.
What I've learned from following agent blogs:
1) Never, ever, ever send a 'thanks for rejection" response - the blogs I've read indicate this is a major no-no, basically because it adds another item into their already overflowing inboxes. Yes, I did this once, and once only.
Karen - I'm new at the querying process, and the one thing I noticed is that the majority of agents normally don't want to be a part of a 'multiple' submission. Keeping that in mind, I query one agent at a time, wait for a response or the requisite amount of time indicated for a no response, and then begin the process all over again. Personally, I don't rule out 'no response' agents, I just put them toward the bottom of the list. Now, could this bite me in the nether regions? Possibly, but with doing one query at a time, I'd rather have a response versus a no response so at least I know where I stand.
I have absolute faith in my work, and it is my 'baby'. While the rejections are somewhat bitter, I understand that my work just wasn't right for the particular agent and wouldn't even consider sending a hateful email back to said agent. I guess it all comes down to respect, as in 'treat people as you want to be treated'. I want to be treated with respect and consideration and so I treat people in the same manner. Perhaps the disgruntled commenters just need to take a step back and think before hitting 'send' when posting a comment. : )
S
Thanks, Gretchen! Thanks, Ginger! This was a great read, and thank you both for taking the time to post this.
First, and this is off topic: Gretchen, your picture on the inside of a dust jacket would make a reader want to read your work. You look thoughtful, with just the right hint of mischief.
I enjoyed reading Ginger's answers to your questions. I am a college professor/ESL coordinator, and for a short time I put my professional life first. THAT was horrific and stressful. Like Ginger, I reorganized my job to be much further down on my list, and now I do things I enjoy, such as write. I've never looked back.
My students expect me to be an automaton as well. It's difficult for them to understand that I don't exist only for their papers, their aid, or their problems. I spend A LOT of time doing my job. No one else is going to give me time to be a person but myself, and I don't need their permission to do it. I suppose an agent might feel the same way. George R. R. Martin also seems to...
I think that writers should foray into the publishing field with their eyes open. Alas, just because a book's written doesn't mean someone will want it. Persistence, practice, and professionalism are key. Having someone to blame is seductive, but ultimately harmful to your career.
If writers want to be taken seriously, it's probably not in our best interest to take our emotional state to the internet and put it on display. What is it about hiding behind a screen that makes people forget courtesy and respect for others?
So, well written. Ginger shouldn't have to remind people she is human. We should all realize that we're on the same side in this, and our goal, to produce good works to read, is a shared goal.
Idealistically,
Catherine
Thanks Ginger and Gretchen. Honestly, what's sad is that so much of this should be common sense.
Great post. Well said. Thanks, Ginger & Gretchen.
Thanks for the great advice. I thought queryfail was funny and a good learning experience for writers. I didn't read many of the comments for agentfail, but I'm getting a sense that it didn't come out fun for everyone, which is saddening. This should all have been in the spirit of comraderie.
Thanks Ginger and Gretchen for posting about this, but, I think it's terrible that you have to. Ginger, I feel awful that fellow writers would send you rude emails if you send them a rejection. Call me naive, but while I know there's a certain distrust between writers (at least those not represented yet) and agents, I would never think people would act so unprofessionally -- at least to the agent's face (or email). Yes, what we write is personal to us, but ultimately this is a business. If someone doesn't like our work, someone else will. If we get too many rejections, perhaps it wasn't ready and we need to work on it. But neither of these are reasons to be rude to people. Would you go into a job interview and curse at the person if they said you weren't right for the job? No. Not only is it rude and unprofessional, it burns bridges. Like most industries, publishing is small and word gets around. If you want to be a part of this business, be a professional. It's better for you, and for the rest of us.
Ginger,
You made a lot of good points (and you made them politely, which is more than can be said for some of the agentfail folks).
As an author actively seeking an agent, I have sympathy for the frustration many folks are feeling. I especially understand how hard it is to email your query and never know for sure if "no answer" is "no" or "the internet ate my baby."
On the other hand, after over a year of querying, I can honestly say that most of the agents I have dealt with were reasonably prompt, unfailingly professional and some of them were downright helpful. (And as far as I can tell from reading agent blogs, most of them work 60-80 hours weeks, which makes being any of the above pretty challenging.)
To succeed in this industry, we all need each other. So I say,"Let's play nice, for if we don't hang together, we shall assuredly hang separately!"
Gretchen--thanks for sharing this. I tweeted it on!
Great post. If you consider yourself just a tiny grain of sand on the beach of life not even vast personal e-mails from agents are going to help you. I'm hoping this brouhaha fades fast. There are books to write, blogs to post, cats to pet and martinis to drink. I say lets get on with it!
Personally, I love that agents blog. I like that I get to know them better when their website might limit that ability. I don't look at blogging as a waste of time since most have VERY helpful information on them. As an unpublished writer, any insight I can gain is always helpful. And Ginger, you are absolutely right, family, pets and then the career. Thanks, Gretchen for sharing this.
Great Post. Thanks to both Gretchen and Ginger.
I want to thank all of you for your incredible comments and I'm grateful to Ginger for the opportunity to continue this conversation from a different POV. I'm in awe of her courage to post this without the shadow of anonymity.
I loved what Ginger had to say, except one thing. Putting her work third on her list of priorities. As a writer trying to make it in this world, and having come so close, it has had to be my number one priority in life, which is true of most dedicated artists in this world. It seems like agents want to take all the vacations they can get, spending time with their friends, family, and pets. Fine. But during those long weekends, I'm either working on my writing or slaving away over every word in a query letter to get it as perfect as I can. I am dedicated to my art above all else and I'm very determined. I don't want an agent who puts her work third.
Anonymous, while I can absolutely empathize with you, I have to say that as a writer, I don't put my work first. I write when I feel like writing, which sometimes takes priority over other things in my life, and sometimes doesn't. I don't feel that I am less of an artist because of it - though technically, I wouldn't be the one to judge.
As for Ginger's dedication to her work, I can attest that she is everything I could ever hope for in an agent and then some. Even if I am third on her list of priorities, I count myself lucky to hold that place. Why not? I put my family, my friends and my pets before my writing...
But that's just me, of course. Every writer-agent pairing isn't a match made in Valhalla.
A good job doesn't love you back :).
I believe it's possible to set the reply on an email to a no-reply address, ie one you just never look at. That would mean never having to read "screw you" :).
Great interview; thanks to both Gretchen and Ginger!
Anon, while I understand what you're saying, I don't feel like that's a very reasonable expectation. No matter how much you love/care about your job, family and well-being SHOULD come first. If you're looking for an agent who will put her/his career above loved ones, health, and peace of mind, I think you're going to be looking for an awfully long time.
Thanks for sharing - this seems to be the less frenetic and charged debate
My respect for 'slush' and those dealing with it went through the roof once I decided to take up the Bransford challenge
Also surely anyone aspiring to be a good writer should also rank reading higher than their own writing in order of priority as well as family, friends and whatever pays the bills too?
Anon 10:02 PM,
If writing is a writer's top priority then the writing will lack life, love, emotion, action, and most of all: fun!
The same is true for editors and agents.
Thanks again for the post. It warranted a re-read :~)
Paul, my writing doesn't lack those qualities, especially the fun part! I thought my comment might spark a few rebutals. But all the greats in all the arts have always put their work first. I wish I could link to an article I wrote on Maria Callas, but I have to remain anonymous here. To me, Janet Reid is an example of an agent who puts her work first. Her dedication always touches my heart. That's not to say that Ginger's not a good agent. I'm sure she is. Just "not right for me at this time."
An agent who doesn't put her family ahead of her work is NOT an agent for me. That is an agent who doesn't value personal relationships. I imagine that that agent would work for him/herself at the expense of a client.
I think you are dead wrong, Anonymous, but I wish you luck in your search.
Thanks for posting this.
Sheila
RE: Maria Callas. Singing being a personal taste (and she never was mine) and her reputation as a tremendous "artiste" aside, she did not lead a happy life, at least not by my standards.
But again, personal tastes. Anonymous I wish you luck in finding an agent who can live up to your expectations.
Totally agree with the 11:25 comment that something is getting lost here: an automated response that says "Thanks, query received" is not difficult to set up, and it hums along nicely once it has been. Making the argument "but a client might use 'query' in the subject line, and I don't want to treat them as an aspiring author" (horrors!!) is honestly absurd. Will that client fire you, or remember "oh, right, I forgot that I'm not supposed to use 'query' in the subject line" and resend it?
I continue to be amazed that a basic courtesy--one which could be fulfilled with an automated system--is treated as an unreasonable and overly demanding request by agents who solicited queries in the first place. If authors are expected to dot every i and cross every t--and they are--there's no reason agents can't do their very small part in this regard, as many, many reputable ones do. I'm also amused that people who had no problem mercilessly mocking authors (who never agreed to allow their queries to be hammered in this way) in #queryfail then grew all weepy at the "bitterness" and "vitriol" of #agentfail. Pot, meet kettle.
Thanks Gretchen and Ginger! I am a lawyer and constantly have to fight the boundaries between professional and personal life. Call me at 9:00 in the evening and you are not going to like the response you get, even if we were laughing like old friends at your court appearance that morning.
The number one bar complaint against lawyers is failure to communicate. As measured by clients, not by a reasonable person. A thread called #lawyerfail would crash the entire internet. So, I am sympathetic.
However, on the flip side, there is a lot in there that is constructive and I hope some agents take note. Of 100 'thanks - no thanks' automated rejections, 10 will react badly. 90 will be released from 'query hell,' take a few minutes to mope, and then move on. No need to bow to the tyranny of the minority to the detriment of the majority who will act professionally.
Nice blog! I'll be back!
Terri
It was interesting to me that another agent commented that "no response means no" usually means that the agent's list is full and they really don't want new clients.
I trust my e-mail about 87% of the time. I won't query a "no response" agent until I've gone through my list of everyone I know is actively seeking new clients.
Now I feel a bit guilty about saying that. If the agent is doing it just to dodge negative response, I can understand that. It's hard as a writer to accept. But I do understand. Thank you for that.
Very interesting post! The ongoing discussion in the blog world is very educational.
Ginger is the second agent who has argued that a personal life should take priority and it simply amazes me that the topic is even up for consideration. Only Americans feel that they have to work so much all the time. It's a ridiculous notion.
When I begin querying agents (soon!), I will keep all of these points in mind.
Thank you Gretchen and Ginger!
No response means no is a perfectly legitimate stance for agents to have. Writers need to figure out that agents get thousands of queries a year. Taking the time to say no equates to two to three weeks of lost work time every year. That's a sizeable chunk of lost productivity. Personally, I assume my queries are coming back with a no. The odds of me hitting that window of opportunity with an agent, where all that timing and luck coincides perfectly is less than 1% of the time. I know my odds. They're really, really slim, no matter how good my writing is. "If they just read the pages, they'll see how publishable my novel is." Heard this gripe before. The problem is, most agents have a handful of slots to fill in a given year, at best. They get anywhere from 15-30,000 queries in a year. Even if only 1% of those are publishable, good novels from talented writers, you are talking about 150 to 300 books. Not only can you not read all of that, but the agent only needs maybe 3-5 of those. So, an agent has to swim through a vast pile of unpublishable material in order to find that 1%, and THEN decide which of those they think might be those gems and choose to read.
And writers bitch about no response means no. I'm glad when I do get responses. Agents are under no obligation to do so. It's a courtesy, not a responsibility. If you take the (albeit pessimistic, but much less stressful) stance that the answer is no, you can query and move on, and hope you are the exception to the norm. But seriously people (those of you who whine about response times or no responses), quitcherbitchen. Agents want to find books to publish. They love doing that, and they'll certainly tell you if you are lucky enough to have hit that window of opportunity.
In my opinion, courtesy and 'an automated system' are diametrically opposed. I've been following this thing, and I honestly don't mind the "no response means no" thing.
Now, don't get me wrong, I do appreciate IMMENSELY the rejections I've gotten that were personalized, but those were mostly after requests for partials or fulls. Plain old queries are different.
I used to work at this place where I had to book bands, and if I had an unlimited budget I could never have booked all the performers who sent me their tapes. So I had to sort them quickly and respond only to the ones that interested me, and if I hadn't developed a method I'd have gone insane. It's a similar business, I think.
Great comments, guys. I hear you on the "no means no" debate. It's no fun to be querying, no one pretends that it is. And while no responses can be frustrating, I think jimnduncan's approach is the key: expect the no and then be pleasantly surprised if it's not.
PS- Okay, I feel like the way I worded that was confusing. I was trying to say that I don't think an automated response to queries would be any sign of courtesy -- however, neither is it necessary. The agent is under no obligation to be courteous or responsive to everyone who can find their name on the Internet.
Once they request pages, I do think courtesy is expected -- and I do think agents display it! I've only gotten rejections so far, but they've been incredibly kind and encouraging ones for requested material. Maybe I've just been lucky. Maybe some agents aren't that professional. I don't know.
Why not set up a separate email for queries from the one used for clients? Then an automated response is possible without the potential of offending a client. And you can still set up a do-not-reply function on it to avoid pissy responses from that 10%.
12:30 hit the nail on the head.
I don't mind when agents post what general things do and do not help a writer's cause when sending a query, but I don't think it's professional (or entirely legal) for an agent to quote someone's query letter for the purposes of mocking them.
Yes, and that's what they're doing. They're mocking these writers, and a lot of writers who see themselves in that position are feeling hurt, and I think with some good reason.
I really wish agents would understand one thing. Yes, they're busy. Yes, their job can be hard and stressful. I'm a writer and I'm sympathetic to that. I work two jobs just to stay afloat and pay for the medications I need to stay alive, I barely sleep, and I've been querying for nearly a year. I get what being busy and overwhelmed is like. Really.
But agents are in a position of power over aspiring writers. It's very hard, as a writer, to see these people who have this power to make or break someone's career ganging up on a group of people who are not in a position to defend themselves without risking tanking their own chances of getting a deal or selling their projects.
Notice that most of the #agentfail comments were made anonymously. I think it should say something to agents that there is that much venom, and yet writers feel like they're not free to discuss it openly, lest they risk being blackballed.
It's not a level playing field. Why will no agent acknowledge that?
I think the vitriol comes from writers who see agents more interested in sounding witty as they tear down the queries and emails they get than posting about positive aspects of their work. It's hard when you're working your hardest, working as much (or more) than some agents do, and all you see on these blogs are agents telling you "UR DOIN IT WRONG, UR SO STUPID!"
And yes, that is what all this equates to.
I'm sorry, but 12:30 was absolutely right. You can't set up an entire event that's based on the premise of agents venting about what they like least about their side of the equation and then say that the anger and hurt feelings of the writers, the very people you're insulting, are out of proportion.
Agents keep stressing the need for professionalism, and that's fine, but there is no other profession that's gotten together and done this kind of thing. Doctors don't hold #patientfail. Lawyers don't hold #clientfail. They couldn't and wouldn't do that.
So why do agents think that their profession should allow them to so attack the very people that keep them working.
I feel bad, because I think agents are going to see that whether or not they believe the hostility writers feel is legitimate or not, it's real, and it's going to confront them.
As for "no response means no", I feel like 11:25's question has STILL not been answered.
What is so burdensome to the agent about sending out an automated response to let a querying writer know that the submission has been received. I understand fully not responding after that, but I wish that question would get answered, because no agent seems willing to answer it.
What is your response, Ginger, to people who just want to know that their submission got there, and what difficulty prevents you from setting up an easily automated system?
If someone would answer me that, I'd be completely satisfied in all this, I really would.
I don't mind if agents Twitter/blog. Frankly, I think any writer that reads an agent's blog rather than analyzing their client list and their submission guidelines is wasting their time. You don't care about my life, I don't care about yours. And that's fair enough.
I imagine that you won't address my concerns, but I've said my peace.
Well said.
Besides replies to queries, what about the no responses to REQUESTED mss? What about those of us who passed the first hurdle and are still waiting MONTHS to hear back on partials and fulls?
Writers had a lot more gripes than "no means no" if agents bothered to read without taking offense. They didn't complain about blogging & Twittering---they said don't bitch & moan about lack of time if you Twitter about trivia all day. Maybe the complaints hit a bit close to home...Sounds like some agents can dish it out, but they can't take the constructive criticism.
Well, I find it a little. . . interesting isn't quite the word that agents started this whole thing by queryfail in which they ranted about how horrible authors who query are and THEN got all besides themselves because authors responded with criticism of their own. Did agents think they were above the fray?
Normally, they are in fact. The agents were ranting about people who in fact have NO power in the publishing business. Attacking the powerless is one of the lowest things one can do.
Admittedly, I did not take part in agentfail, but I sympathized because I felt that many of the comments and the general tone of queryfail was snarky, unprofessional and all-in-all inexcusable.
As far as agents twittering, etc. I don't care. As far as agents making personal responses on queries, I don't care.
I DO care about getting timely and courteous responses. I'm sorry that Ms. Clark got rude emails to rejections. That doesn't keep most agents from responding and I DO still think that agents should at least do a form rejection. I personally pretty much write off agents who don't. I decided they are not the kind of people I want to do business with. This isn't intended an attack on her, just my own choice in handling my own business decisions. I expect minimal courtesy.
I have a BIG problem with agents who don't respond in a timely and polite manner to partials and fulls they have REQUESTED. Yes, I have been running into this. I have to say, and I don't like having to say this, I have run into more discourtesy of this kind from agents than I feel I should because it strikes me as purely unprofessional.
So bottom line, since agents keep demanding (rightfully) professional conduct from authors, they should behave as they expected to be treated.
Very late, but:
As you are a client of Ginger Clark, do you know whether or not her "no response means no" applies to requested partials as well as base e-mail queries?
As far as I know, Ginger responds to all requested materials. If you don't already, I suggest you follow her on Twitter (@Ginger_Clark) as she gives status updates on where she is with query, partial and full reading. Good luck!
When Ginger tweets that she's "completed queries," is that all-inclusive to partials and fulls as well? I suppose that's wherein my confusion lies.
Queries mean queries, and just that. Not requested materials.
Hi, queries means just emailed queries usually--not partials, not mailed queries, not full MS. Just emailed queries.
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